tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post6652888158041802323..comments2023-10-24T20:37:11.842+13:00Comments on The Probligo: On liberalism (with a small "l")The probligohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17882103150181414348noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-55064865881416636972011-02-22T15:36:58.580+13:002011-02-22T15:36:58.580+13:00One other point which needs to be made clear.
You...One other point which needs to be made clear.<br /><br />You say -<br /> <i>"I strongly object to the stereotyping of white NZ-ers, as Habersham also helpfully pointed out. "We" are not "racists". "We" did NOT "defraud" Maori (except in minor cases provable in court). "We" abolished slavery before anyone else."</i><br /><br /><br />You The probligohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882103150181414348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-22476747959422326882011-02-22T09:01:30.222+13:002011-02-22T09:01:30.222+13:00PhilBest,
I have tried drafting three different r...PhilBest,<br /><br />I have tried drafting three different responses to your latest comments. Both became far too long, detailed, or headed into the downright impolite. So, instead I shall be brief and to the point.<br /><br />Your comments show just howe little you really know about the present, and past, relationships between Maori and pakeha.<br /><br /><br />Go away, read Michael King's &The probligohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882103150181414348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-42163479291598764072011-02-22T08:57:42.117+13:002011-02-22T08:57:42.117+13:00This comment has been removed by the author.The probligohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882103150181414348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-78905001688660916522011-02-19T17:52:38.290+13:002011-02-19T17:52:38.290+13:00I think the "stereotype" that always SHO...I think the "stereotype" that always SHOULD have applied to Maori, is that they are a wise race who, when confronted abruptly with civilisation far more advanced than their own, CHOSE of their own free will to join it at the most legal level after some of their wisest men had travelled and learnt. Similar to the Japanese. Also like the Japanese, family structure was valuable to them; PhilBesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07093574627607116146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-88397022178089454942011-02-19T17:51:56.994+13:002011-02-19T17:51:56.994+13:00Thank you for considering what I have said. I thin...Thank you for considering what I have said. I think we are probably mostly in agreement. I admit to being completely unaware of the feelings of Ngapuhi that you refer to. You mean they are an example of the kind of thing I am arguing, that is, they celebrate how wise Maori were to get themselves citizenship under the British Crown? I am disgusted with our media for completely whitewashing the PhilBesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07093574627607116146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-44510998543379720222011-02-17T11:12:42.174+13:002011-02-17T11:12:42.174+13:00Where does all this "rule of law" derive...<i>Where does all this "rule of law" derive from? Sir Apirana Ngata was quite clear about this being a major reason why Te Tiriti was a good idea, and the chiefs who "signed away our rights while we were strong", did so after wise consideration. And we should celebrate that - no other indigenous race in the world did so. Absent Te Tiriti; absent the Crown; would any redress The probligohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882103150181414348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-40697501374274560092011-02-17T07:14:23.582+13:002011-02-17T07:14:23.582+13:00Thanks Philbest, because you have clarified some ...Thanks Philbest, because you have clarified some of the issues that I suspected but could not exactly put my finger on.<br /><br />First comes out of the "stone age culture" idea. There is no question - it is irrefutable - that prior to the arrival of the European, Maori were a "stone age culture".<br /><br />Like a large number of people with whom I have discussed this The probligohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882103150181414348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-8453394570729148152011-02-16T18:51:33.687+13:002011-02-16T18:51:33.687+13:00But we might actually agree on a lot; I have no pr...But we might actually agree on a lot; I have no problem with:<br /><br />".....Far better that (in the very long term) a new culture evolves that takes the best elements of all its component cultures and recognises the cultural sources of those....." <br /><br />I just do not believe that "the best elements" that can be combined, will be found in roughly equal proportions in PhilBesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07093574627607116146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-42578195228989080282011-02-16T18:51:17.161+13:002011-02-16T18:51:17.161+13:00Probligo, a simple fact is a simple fact. My ances...Probligo, a simple fact is a simple fact. My ancestors culture was "stone age", before they discovered how to smelt metals. Someone discovered how to smelt metals, after their culture moved on from precisely the "relationship with the environment" that you insist we should be so respectful about. <br />Have you read Lynn Townsend White's classic essay "The Historical PhilBesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07093574627607116146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-83942750017139916332011-02-16T10:03:45.125+13:002011-02-16T10:03:45.125+13:00Philbest -
I can ignore your (I think quite derog...Philbest -<br /><br />I can ignore your (I think quite derogatory) reference to "stone age culture". Please, I am trying hard here to leave that out of the debate.<br /><br />There is no question in my mind that Habersham was invited to address that congress of gang members, the Otatara Awakening, as a respectable and well known person of colour from what had been in the past a veryThe probligohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882103150181414348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6181862.post-5686999264862787112011-02-14T16:36:54.223+13:002011-02-14T16:36:54.223+13:00Good on you for referring to Richard Habersham'...Good on you for referring to Richard Habersham's essay. The silence around NZ has been so deafening, I was beginning to wonder if I'd just dreamed I'd read it.<br /><br />If the people of a stone age culture really does want to preserve their traditions, then they simply cannot expect to share in the benefits of modern life. MOST of the PEOPLE of any given race or culture, given the PhilBesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07093574627607116146noreply@blogger.com