Over at MuD&PHuD is another of these "weapon control - oh dearie me I might have my gun taken off me" posts which do tend to get a little tiresome. This time around the question of machetes is raised and this is where it connects with Vanuatu.
Walk along any track, even the footpaths in Vila, and you will see the scars on the trees. Many many of them. From small and shallow, a half metre above ground to 2 metres up and more than a scratch. If you see a man on his way home from the garden (on Tanna for example) he will have his machete on his shoulder. The odd swing at a blade of grass, or a passing tree - no different to using a switch to flick at long grass....
A Ni-Vanuatu boy knows exactly what his fifth birthday present will be. His first machete - a 12" blade, wickedly sharp. Every kid soon learns exactly what that blade can do.
How many people get killed in Vanuatu? Well if I was told right the last guy in jail there for a serious or violent crime was guilty of rape. His was the first imprisonment for a violent crime in some ten years or so.
Now, before you even imagine that I am advocating every boy should get a pistol for his fifth birthday, please think again.
What is apparent to me, vividly, is that "availability" or "access" or "legality" is not really the issue.
As I understand it, guns are available with reasonably minimum restriction in the US. The "control debate" arises whenever that is in some way threatened, and it does not seem to matter whether the threat is real or imagined. The mere idea of a State or Federal Government restricting access to firearms, at any level, is met with a fusillade of counter-threat, court action and near revolt.
So, rhetorically, why is it that there are virtually no killings at all in Vanuatu (on any measure or comparison)?
Conversely, and again rhetorically, why do some parts of the US have kill rates (per million population) that are sadly comparable with some war zones?
I am not advocating that the US should introduce gun control or allow totally free access... That is neither my place nor my point.
The question, if there is one, is more in the lines of "Why do Americans kill each other in such numbers, whatever the means, whatever the reason?" Before it is said, the reply that "...criminals kill people..." does in fact duck the question. A person who intentionally kills another is, in my book, guilty of a crime and is hence a criminal. That probably would account for 90% of all killings anywhere.
As a comparison, US against Vanuatu, I can only conclude that there is a cultural cause behind it. Just what form that might take I can not imagine.
Thursday, March 16, 2006
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Here's my short answer.
The number of assaults and murders in an area is inversely proportional to the number of legal guns. Chicago and Washington DC trade off being 'murder capitol of the country' every few years and concealed carry is illegal in both (and DC bans guns all together). I do not think this is a coincidence.
Some people would point to 'diversity' and/or poverty as causes of violence (i.e., tension among racial groups). I don't think that's right since South Dakota has an awful lot of poor white folks who don't kill each other and inner cities (where crime is high) aren't exactly the melting pots they once were.
The problems run much deeper, and the real answers (if any are to be had) will address them...in the long run. However, my claim to the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA) is not dependent on crime, or the lack thereof. I claim the RKBA as God-Given and I will not yield it to any man.
I understand that reasonable people can disagree with me in the since that you (or anyone) can choose the unarmed life. The thing I do not accept is for those who disagree trying to disarm me. After all, I could certainly use Speech to incite violence or otherwise directly cause harm and yet no one is calling for me to be muzzled simply because the possibility exists (McCain- Feingold debacle aside).
Of course, I might also use Speech for a good and noble purpose and I think we generally agree that the good outweighs the bad. Of course, I claim the Right to Free Speech as God-Given and so regardless of the potential harm I might inflict, I will not yield that Right to any man. If, of course, I actually use Speech to incite violence or otherwise directly cause harm (yelling “Theatre” in a crowded fire), I will be rightly punished. So, how are guns different? Why is it that the possibility I might shoot an innocent person (the potential ‘bad’) justification for taking away the means of justified self-defense (the potential ‘good’)?
Our Founders were smart enough to enshrine this God-Given Right (along with a few others) in the very founding document, and I plan to do my part to keep that tradition alive.
As for your question: "Why do Americans kill each other in such numbers, whatever the means, whatever the reason?"
My answer is that while there's always room for improvement, we don't, really, kill our fellow citizens all that high a rate per capita (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_percap). Yes, of course, (almost) every death is a tragedy…but I do not believe for a second that the presence of guns in our country is the cause of violence. Switzerland, after all, is #56 on the list and everyone there is armed. Can you explain that using the premise that guns cause violence?
Tom, thanks for reminding me of the nationmaster source.
But as I said in my original post, all of this begs the question of WHY the murder rate in US - 42 per mill - is nearly four times that of NZ.
If it were a "natural tendancy" for humans to kill each other then one might expect the rates to be somewhat more similar. To have a four-fold difference points me to some other reason...
And the next post that I put up also touched upon that.
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If you want to go look at the effect of firearms, then try this -
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap
The differences here are even more marked - as one might expect because very much fewer people in NZ own firearms (by choice I must add, there is nothing that would prevent me from buying a firearm today if I felt the need.)
Note here that I am still not going to be drawn into the RKBA argument. That is the US's problem.
Tom, thanks for reminding me of the nationmaster source.
But as I said in my original post, all of this begs the question of WHY the murder rate in US - 42 per mill - is nearly four times that of NZ.
If it were a "natural tendancy" for humans to kill each other then one might expect the rates to be somewhat more similar. To have a four-fold difference points me to some other reason...
And the next post that I put up also touched upon that.
___________________________
If you want to go look at the effect of firearms, then try this -
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap
The differences here are even more marked - as one might expect because very much fewer people in NZ own firearms (by choice I must add, there is nothing that would prevent me from buying a firearm today if I felt the need.)
Note here that I am still not going to be drawn into the RKBA argument. That is the US's problem.
Multiple posts? WTF??
I didn't comment on the USA vs. NZ per capita rates because I really don't know much (read: anything) about NZ. I don't know what might account for the differences. I ran into one of the more interesting attempts to take on this issue (in the US) at The Smallest Minority (http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2006/02/culture.html). It's long but, IMHO, a worthy read.
For the most part I agree with Kevin's post. It appears to be true that black on black crime in the US is far more prevalent than any other category you can define. So, maybe there's something to his argument that we (as a country) have been telling 'them' that it's ok to be deadbeat dads/let the government take care of it/etc. for so long that any idea of self-worth has been eroded and caused all of our woes. Cleaning up the mess that is the public dole probably couldn't hurt…but whether or not it would ‘fix’ the problem? I guess we’d have to do it and see. Don’t hold your breath.
Maybe it's just the American-centric in me, but I have a hard time with the idea that direct comparisons between the US and most other countries hold water without a huge bit of conversion-factoring. We have an awful lot of people in a really wide range of situations with all sorts of social/historical issues that complicate things. If I were the benevolent emperor of the US I can think of a few things that might get everything back on track...but as reality stands it's a work in progress.
Have you spent much/any time in the US? Do you have any insight? Do you honestly believe that it’s the prevalence of guns that causes violence (in the US or otherwise)? (In the tradition of many teachers…) If so, why?
Have you spent much/any time in the US? No, nor have I any desire to visit the US. There are other, far more interesting places I want to see first.
Do you have any insight? I have met quite a number of Americans here in NZ. Of those, one was able to persuade NZ Customs to allow him to leave his weapon in bond storage for collection on his departure. The rest knew enough to check first... I have a very limited insight into American life as a result.
That said, that is exactly why I proposed that perhaps it is culture that accounts for the differences in rates of murder (the original graph you referred me to). I do know that if you compare NZ with Japan the culture differences are a very large part of the difference. (BTW the murder rate in NZ ratio population is measurably higher than Japan.
Do you honestly believe that it’s the prevalence of guns that causes violence (in the US or otherwise)? (In the tradition of many teachers…) If so, why?
That is exactly why I framed the original moot - to try and find out.
"Why do Americans kill each other in such numbers, whatever the means, whatever the reason?"
I note your inference that part of the reason might be racial. If that is the case, is that the consequence of racial origin alone, the (apparent) high rate of criminal offending in non-white people, or is there a stronger socio-economic basis?
In NZ there are the occasional murders involving firearms. From recent memory are a Schizophrenic teenager who shot his parents and some family friends; a 11y-o who shot his step-father; a 14y-o high on P who shot three killed one in the commission of a robbery; it does happen here, despite so-called "gun controls". That does not make me feel that I need to keep a gun under my pillow.
Speaking of that, I took a look down here -
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html
Scroll down to Table 2.5.
Please, tell me what you think...
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